Harry's Place Arts

M John Harrison: Light

the Diamond age by NealStephenson was good, trouble with alot of philip K dicks stuff it was bought up and not made, 3 sitgmata of pamer Eldertich, Ridley scott taking years to make the man in the High castle,
Huxley’s brave new world is coming out with Keanu Reeves!!
huck palaniuk who wrote fight club and Joh Wyndam had great stoores never made,same as JG ballrd, High rise might be made one day, shame Arthur C Clakres 2061 and 3001 were nevermade too.

Oh and Alan Moore’s cominc books are technically books so its a shame about HAlo Jones

Thanks for that suggestion Nicholas. I’ve looked it up, and I have to say it didn’t immediately strike me as a novel I’d find congenial. But I think that is perhaps to do with a wider problem I have with modern sf – which often simply doesn’t seem so *enjoyable* as earlier sf – eg Wyndham, mentioned by John.

I liked the Diamond Age – enjoyed it more than Neuromancer. However I probably wouldn’t want to put it on a course after Neuromancer because it’s almost too similar – and not genre-defining in the way N. was?

Yes, High Rise probably would make a good film. Another one for Cronenburg?

Another really excellent novel – I must reread it – is Chris Beckett’s The Holy Machine.

http://www.amazon.com/Holy-Machine-Chris-Beckett/dp/1592242081/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1304064430&sr=1-1

I should say that I’m acquainted with him, he’s a former colleague – but I was a fan of his work before I met him.

Christopher Priest is another favourite but, again, he’s not what I think of as a down-the-line sf writer.

Can I recommend The Anubis Gates, assuming you can count it as SF. Only snag is its publication precedes Neuromancer. Fine appreciation at http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2010/jan/25/anubis-gates-tim-powers?INTCMP=SRCH

Hyperion and Fall of Hyperion (one novel in 2 volumes) are , with Carrion Comfort (more horror than SF) my favorite works from Dan Simmons. The Hyperion books I guess helped reinvigorate Space Opera. I also recommend Peter Hamilton for this.

American Gods by Neil Gaiman is well regarded but I have not read it yet.

‘Oryx and Crake’ by Margaret Atwood

Philip – Yes, Hyperion and FOH are great – definitely among my favourite (comparatively) recent sf. I don’t think I’d heard of Anubis Gates – it looks good, I’ll give it a try. I enjoyed American Gods, but wouldn’t describe it as sf, exactly.

Shmoo- El – I did quite enjoy that, yet also felt vaguely annoyed that that kind of book gets praised more because of who wrote it, whereas other brilliant books (eg The Sparrow) seem to get largely overlooked outside sf circles.

I guess I need to read The Sparrow!

Sarah AB, Tim Powers is a wonderful writer – he might be a bit more in the news soon as one of his (weaker) books is the basis for the new Pirates of the Caribbean film. His Far Call (and its semi-sequels Expiration Date Earthquake Weather) are his best things though not really SF at all, probably a bit like American Gods.

Do you know R A Lafferty at all?

should be “Expiration Date” and “Earthquake Weather” in penultimate line. Sorry

I don’t know Lafferty but I looked him up and was intrigued – thanks for the suggestions.

Would you recommend Iain M. Banks and China Mieville, in spite of their noxious politics?

I’ve read some Iain (with and without the M.) Banks, but never felt I quite, er, grokked him. I have one China Mieville on my shelf (a friend passed it on to me) but haven’t got round to it. I deplore their views, or some of them in any case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joanna_Russ

I won’t do a separate post, as it has been noted that HP Arts contains rather a lot of obituaries, but Joanna Russ died yesterday.

only came accross Joanna russ a few months ago, r.i.p

I’ve never really got on with Joanna Russ’ writing, but it’s still sad to lose her.

One candidate for the best SF Film never made and the polar opposite to Joanna Russ’ work would be Bob Heinlein’s “Starship Troopers.” There was a movie made with that title, but it wasn’t based on anything Heinlein had ever written . . .

A candidate for best SF novel since Neuromancer? “Ash” by Mary Gentle. SF/Alternative History/Fantasy/Gender roles and some very intriguing characters. Won the British science Fiction Award for best novel some years back.

Ash looks really interesting and reminds me of a couple of other female writers of softer sf – Connie Willis and (a particular favourite) Lois Mcmaster Bujold.

I’m a fan of Starship Troopers, and think it’s a much more interesting, subtle book than one might think at first glance. The film was obviously very different – though I don’t think the difference between film and book is so glaring as you do – but I like it very much too.

I’ve written an article (not out yet) on human/insect interfaces which has quite a lot about Starship Troopers in it. I think the way the humans become more insectlike in order to defeat their bug enemies is quite striking.

Glad that you enjoyed the movie “Starship troopers.” I loathed it; it was IMHO a movie directed by someone who didn’t like the book (and possibly hadn’t even read it) and had a script by someone who had read the book, but didn’t understand it.

Okay there are differences in taste and to extent this is subjective, but I have disagree with you objectively about the difference between the film and the book. As an example: In the film a recruit questions the utility of knives vs. nuclear weapons, his sargeant uses it as an opportunity for a sadistic joke, in the book when this happens the sargeant explains the importance of never giving up, no matter what the apparent desparity in strength, and also the importance of controlled use of appropriate levels of force i.e. a knife might be a better tool for some jobs than a H-bomb.

Ash is definitely interesting. I will confess I haven’t read either of the two authors mentioned, but I’ll try and check them out.

I would love to see the 4 novella “Planet Of Adventure” series by Jack Vance made into folms – the books have a filmic quality about them and are (in the best possible way!) “good-bad books”. The films could now be realised well with GCGI, and the Dirdir, Pnume, Wankh and Chasch would be something to see. Wayne Douglas Barlowe drew them – I want to see them on film…..

If you want an author that is genre-defining after Neuromancer, I think Neal Stepheson is your man. I agree that the Diamond Age is somewhat reminiscent of Neuromancer; but Snow Crash, the Barroque Cycle and Anathem are genre defying precisely because they blur the line between sf and historical and contemporary fiction thematically, and yet are unmistakably sf in style. This is, in my view, the defining quality of sf today. We live in a sf world; nerd culture has become mainstream since the internet became mainstream, and most of us have by training and experience developed sf sensibilities about our everyday lives. Sf has therefore become a peculiar type of outlook, rather than a fixed set of themes or speculative fiction with a scientific bent.

Note that the inverse is also true: Thematically, both Michael Crichton and Dan Brown wr[o/i]te science fiction. Stylistically, they do not. A non-fiction article by Neal Stepheson about optic fiber networks has more sf in it than any number of cloned dinosaurs or antimatter bombs by those two hacks.

Rendezvous with Rama and the Foundation Trilogy, if properly made, could be great movies.

I’m a fan of Starship Troopers, and think it’s a much more interesting, subtle book than one might think at first glance.

Very true. Heinlein is an interesting window into America. And “but never felt I quite, er, grokked him” – a cool neologism. I read the other day that the phrase “Stranger in a strange land” comes from the King James edition – thought that was him too.

On your question, how about Stephen Donaldson’s gap series? Not really genre-defining – the hardcore sf types will always see him as too fantasy – but very good.

Scott – I’m not sure if I’ve read anything by Vance, even though he’s such a familiar name. I’m now wondering if the best sf movie never made is more likely to be one based on a short story rather than an entire novel – something like Kilworth’s ‘Let’s go to Golgotha’ or A. C. Clarke’s ‘The Star’.

Bruno – I really agree about novels which feel like sf even if they aren’t, strictly, and vice versa. I certainly liked Cryptonomicon – and read the first of the Baroque ones – but do wonder whether they all needed to be *quite* so long (and for that reason I’d hesitate to teach them).

Tevya – I remember trying them but (though there are exceptions) I’m not so keen on fantasy …

I’ve thought of a writer I’d recommend even though his views are offensive – going back to quizblorg’s point – and that’s Orson Scott Card – I once read that he thinks homosexuality should be illegal but Ender’s Game is a really good novel – which foretold blogging amongst other things.

http://bremlang.blogspot.com/2009/12/enders-game-and-blogs.html

Ender’s Game sequel, Speaker of the Dead, is quite good too. It draws upon OSC stint as a mormon missionary in Brazil, so it is a much more human novel.

The characterisation of Heinlen, Orson Scott Card, Iain M Banks, China Mieveille – and surely there are many others – as having “noxious” politics, makes me wonder if sci-fi tends more than other genres to breed writers whose politics are unpalatable to the ultra-centrist reader.

G, I think the SF genre gives its authors more scope to experiment with weird politics.

Note, btw, that OSC’s objectionable opinions are usually expressed outside of his novels (at least the SF ones. He apparently wrote recently a Glenn Beckish apocalyptic thriller set in the near future), as are IMB’s. In fiction, both authors do deal with politics with a certain slant, but not in a way that I would find objectionable. There are no gay evil masterminds in Ender’s game.

Hi Sarah, give Vance a go especially the “light” “Planet Of Adventure” series. I first read them in my teens, and they were written in the 1960s or even 50s I think. What was wonderful about them was although the human character changed the world in a way that would seem old fashioned nowadays, his chacterisations of aliens The Dirdir, Chasch, Wankh and most especially the Pnume were far ahead of stuff by authors at the time I think. Yes they are “space romance”, but they are also in parts gritty realism on that freak of a planet, Tschai.

And I must put a big word in for many of the short stories contained in a Vladimir Gakov collection I have; The Surf Of Mars, The Ugly Bioform, and City and Dog? are superb Soviet era SF. I have found once I got older than about 30 (no idea why!) that I appreciated short stories more and more. Punchy and to the point. Oh yeah not forgetting “War Crimes” by Peter Carey – his finest work I think!

Sarah, and the unmade greatest ever sf film – Larry Niven’s Ringworld!

You should give Donaldson’s Gap books a go – unusually good character development for sf – would also make great films.

The Forever War by Joe Haldeman would be a great if challenging movie to make. Partly it was written as a counterpoint to Starship Troopers and is obstensibly about the dislocation soliders feel when returning home, except in this case relativity means they return to a world centuries in the future – everyone they know has been dead for years. It is also a love story…

G – I’ve enjoyed Heinlein and Niven amongst right-wing SF writers, so either they are better at not letting their politics get in the way, or as an ultra-centrist you’re not as liberal in your opinions.

Of the two Chris Priest novels I’ve read, “Inverted World” seemed classicly SFish, while “Fugue for a Darkening Island” was of a near future scenario of a type that’s always been easily so classified. Both memorable, especially the latter.
A quick look at the Nebula nominations since 1984 does reveal how few I’ve read, and my favourite among them, “Making Money” by Terry Pratchett, I’d be reluctant to cast as best ever.

Norman Spinrad’s “Bug Jack Barron” is the best SF film never made.

Best SF novel since Neuromancer?

Geoff Ryman’s 1986 novel ‘The Unconquered Country’ – absolutely fucking stunning novel. If you’ve not read, get yourself a copy as I cannot recommend it highly enough.

As for best SF film never made, pick from either of Alfred Bester’s classics ‘Tiger, Tiger!’ and ‘The Demolished Man’ (Tiger, Tiger is the greatest space opera of all time) or Brian Aldiss’s ‘Hothouse’, which shreads Avatar into tiny pieces.

Thanks for all the latest comment.

Bruno – yes, I also thought Speaker for the Dead was really good but began the third (can’t remember title) and got bogged down.

G – an interesting question – I think perhaps sf attacts writers with unusual ways of looking at things – but sometimes that means unusually humane.

kits – yes the Forever War is great – and much less unlike Starship Troopers than one might think …

skidmarx – fugue is on my to read list – Inverted World is very good – and strange.

Unity – I’ll defnitely look that up because I really liked The Child Garden.

Xenocide. And it is awful.

How about the best sf film made? I’d vote for Total Recall, looks dated but was pretty interesting…

Clive Barker`s “Weaveworld” is one of the best fantasy novels that still did not get to big screen. It is not really SF bu it is close enough. I recommend this book to everybody.

I thought Paul McAuley’s ‘The Quiet War’ was amazing. His follow-up – ‘Gardens of the Sun’ – wasn’t quite so good, but I don’t regret buying it.

I managed to pick up a copy of Haldeman’s ‘The Forever War’ on the cheap, and that’s next on my reading-for-fun list after ‘Shake Off’. I suspect that might be my contender for ‘Best SF film never made’, along with ‘Consider Phlebas’ (which impressed, but also appalled, me).

I did try and read China Mieville’s ‘Perdido Street Station’ but I just couldn’t get into it. In any case, I recall Mieville’s statement that he didn’t let Celine’s loathsome politics prevent him from admiring his work, and I’d say the same applies to Banks and ‘Consider Phelbas’.

‘Best SF novel since Neuromancer?
Geoff Ryman’s 1986 novel ‘The Unconquered Country’ – absolutely fucking stunning novel. If you’ve not read, get yourself a copy as I cannot recommend it highly enough.
As for best SF film never made, pick from either of Alfred Bester’s classics ‘Tiger, Tiger!’ and ‘The Demolished Man’ (Tiger, Tiger is the greatest space opera of all time) or Brian Aldiss’s ‘Hothouse’, which shreads Avatar into tiny pieces.’

Excellent choices on all counts: I prefer Ryman’s The Child Garden though.

I love Dan Simmons’ Hyperion Canto’s but Carrion Comfort is definitely horror and sounds like it should star Sid James and Kenneth Williams.

I suspect Greg Egan’s work is unfilmable, which is a shame.

I’d love to see Harry Harrison’s Stainless Steal Rat on the big screen

Incidentally, if you are looking for dull, centralist politics, you are in looking in the wrong genre.

If you can’t slip comfortably between Kim Stanley Robinson’s socialist Mars trilogy, Jerry Pournelle’s fascistic future war novels (Janisaires), Heinlein’s free-market libertarianism (The Moon is a Harsh Mistress), Ken Macleod’s unreconstructed Trotskyism (The Star Fraction), Ursula Le Guin’s Kropotkin-inspired anarchist utopia (The Dispossessed) and Delany’s Foucaultian heterotopia (Triton), etc. you are largely missing the POINT of SF – which is to push ideas as far as they can go.

If you just want your own opinions reflected back at you read something mundane.

“As for best SF film never made, pick from either of Alfred Bester’s classics ‘Tiger, Tiger!’ and ‘The Demolished Man’ (Tiger, Tiger is the greatest space opera of all time)”

Brian de Palma had plans to make ‘The Demolished Man’ into a movie, I think after “Carrie” but it did not happen. I once read its screenplay but do not remember anything about it.

Going back into this probably rather defunct thread, I don’t see why “Carrion Comfort” shouldn’t be classed as SF – it’s all about telepathic powers, after all. In the same way, I regard “Firestarter”, my favourite Stephen King novel, as SF

Just in case anyone doesn’t know, ‘Tiger, Tiger!’ is the superior alternative title of ‘The Stars My Destination’.

I’ve just finished ‘The Forever War’. I’m not sure it would work as a feature film – I think it can only be done proper justice as part of a series. This is what the BBC could have done (in co-operation with HBO) instead of pissing away money on ‘Outcasts’.

Looks like it’s in production as a film.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1307468/

For what it’s worth, I’d make this a four-parter.

(1) Training on Earth and Charon. First contact with Taurans on Aleph, which ends in a massacre of the latter.
(2) William Mandella and Marygay Potter try and fail to adjust to life on Earth. They end up re-enlisting.
(3) Mandella and Potter are wounded in a disastrous op. They go on R&R together to Paradise, but are separated when Mandella gets put in charge of a task force.
(4) The final campaign on Sade-138. Mandella returns to find that the war is declared over, and was a collosal mistake. He is reunited with Potter.

Hands down, Apple’s app store wins by a mile. It’s a huge selection of all sorts of apps vs a rather sad selection of a handful for Zune. Microsoft has plans, especially in the realm of games, but I’m not sure I’d want to bet on the future if this aspect is important to you. The iPod is a much better choice in that case.

‘Lord of Light’ would make a good film, in the right hands. (I have never forgiven Speilberg for ruining Aldiss’ brilliant short-story, ‘Super-Toys Last All Summer Long’, in ‘A.I.’) It has themes close to my heart, being essentially an anti-colonial, anti-elitist pastische; it’s central conceit of a far-off planet colonized by humans who arrived on an Indian-dominated starship, is one chiming with the growth of India as a burgeoning super-power; it concept of science making the claims of Asian religions – such as reincarnation, transmigration of souls and miraculous powers – possible, is an interesting one; and it’s very title is based on a double-meaning, which comes increasingly apparent as you read the book; and it’s main protagonist, ‘Sam’, is, essentially, an everyman anti-hero – just one with a simple, chance power, which makes him exceptionally powerful.

Also ‘Blood Music’…

Kim Stanley Robinson’s Mars trilogy (Red, Green & Blue Mars) are excellent near future SF.

Better than Isac Asimov there is none!

“Shatterface
9 May, 2011, 6:47 pm
you are largely missing the POINT of SF – which is to push ideas as far as they can go.

If you just want your own opinions reflected back at you read something mundane.”

I’m glad someone made this point. I’ve was reading through the comments wondering how so many people could apparently miss the point of SF being about the exploration of ideas, often to extremes. Those ideas aren’t necessarily a reflection or an endorsement of the author’s personal politics.

For example Iain M Bank’s “Culture” and their constant interference with other races including the imposition of “Culture” values over those of other races through military or other means, and the way that this is often seen as a good thing, doesn’t really sit alongside his personal politics regarding about Iraq.

Anyway… my best SF novel would be Altered Carbon by Richard Morgan. Now there is an author who doesn’t try to hide his political leanings.

“Society is, always has been and always will be a structure for the exploitation and oppression of the majority through systems of political force dictated by an élite, enforced by thugs, uniformed or not, and upheld by a willful ignorance and stupidity on the part of the very majority whom the system oppresses.”

been reading john wyndham the chrysalids and alexis porshkins rite of passage, time and the conways is good too.

Have to agree with you Sarah, Ender’s Game would make an excellent film. I’d love to see Foundation made into a film, but, it could be difficult.

Oryx & Crake? I tried 3x to read it, but, it’s so awful, I gave up. I know Attwood has a large feminist following, so whatever she gives out gets a good review, but, she takes far too long in building up, keeping things too gentle, and her writing is too politically influenced by the hard-left.

player paino, kallocain, w.i.t..c.h, ivy time

I’ll throw a few curve balls – especially at those who want to label brilliant and visionary writers such as the right wing, Ayn Rand influenced, Robert Heinlein or the left wing, informed by Marxism. Iain M .Banks, as politically noxious.

‘Time Enough for Love’ would make a great movie, surfing a long lifetime of two thousand years back and forward through time. Heinlein’s hero ends up making love to his own mother. Fantastic!

‘The Player of Games’ – Game-Players, sick galactic Empires and a hint of ‘Heart of Darkness’. Bank’s second book is film length, humane, epic and biting. The director Peter Weir has or had an option on this I believe.

And finally, genocide in space! E.E. ‘Doc’ Smith’s 1928 pulp masterpiece ‘The Skylark of Space’ done straight and properly retro, in 3-d, would be something I’d pay money to go and see.

Neal Stephenson’s Snow Crash or his Cryptonomicon could be decent contenders.

Need to check out this book, heard of it but know nothing about it…Shame on me I know. Will google it now ut need to finish or star 1984 1st. Could that be classed as sf

I would say “Use of Weapons” by Iain M Banks, the Diamond Age, or The Dispossessed by Ursula K LeGuin (assuming it fits the timeline).

best novel neuromancerbest ever for sure

Lord of Light was voted the greatest science fiction novel of all time my readers of Omni magazine, I always thought it would make a great film.

Indeed an attempt was made to film it with a $50 million budget, but the plans fell through.

The story of how the CIA used the plot of the book as part of their plans to free the Iranian hostages is almost worthy of a movie script on its own.

That story and the complete film script is found here…

http://lordoflight.com/

Nice! That story and the complete film script is found here…

love it, what an exccellence, keep up the greta wok ,i love the story